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Creek

Copyright Issues and Proper Presentation of Credits?

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I’m working with an AWESOME illustrator, who I’d like to credit for his illustrations.

 

Then, as I’m building out the various animations, I’m very much hoping I might get feedback here on the forums as to how to make improvements -

 

So I’m (hopefully) basically working with the equally AWESOME coding gurus here to make the animation as cool as possible.

 

But, in the end, I’m both claiming copyright and promoting myself as the creator of the end product.

 

If I should have a problem with that? The reason I don’t is because of my background in working with agencies? There might be a hundred people involved in creating any particular ad, but whoever created the “concept” gets the credit within the agency, and only the brand gets credit from prospective customers, with the agency taking credit creatively from other agencies who might even care about that. And best of luck ever finding out who might be responsible for the concept within the agency - most likely because the agencies don't wish to have the other agencies scalping their talent.

 

So, if that’s horribly wrong, then ? Should I be reinventing that wheel?

 

Maybe there could be or already is a GSAP EndCredits function - and people who know about it can press a key and view all of the credits? ;) I’m being facetious, but... maybe I shouldn’t be?

 

Aside from that, I’m absolutely guessing that the best way of providing these credits would be comments within the code? For help with GSAP, those comments would go in the JavaScript? And the Illustrator gets a comment in the HTML? Or everyone in the HTML, and then credit again in the JavaScript? That’s where things definitely start getting squirrely?

 

Also - the problem with CodePen? At least *I* have problems even editing within Codepen. So, as I assume is the same for everyone here, the code is actually written in a proper editor, and then copied and pasted to CodePen so that it might be presented here?

 

But I don’t want my work-in-progress existing forever on CodePen. And it’s certainly not appropriate for clients? Or it doesn’t appear to be? In the sense that - if I run into a snag, ask for help here, then I wouldn’t wish to leave all of my mistakes forever on CodePen?

 

I wouldn't have the same problem providing revisions on my own site - as if I ever heard any complaint or if there were ever any problems, I could just delete it.

 

And other issues quickly crop up. I’m working with an illustrator who has agreed to work with ME. If I then share his work on Codepen - while I’m certain I can trust the gurus here on GSAP not to “steal” his illustration, obviously no one has control over who can sign up here for the forums, and who might just be browsing CodePen? And that's not even counting the scavenger bots?

 

But if it’s on MY website - then there’s no mistake as to who owns the copyright to the product?

 

Even myself - I think most everything presented on CodePen is presented for free? My guess is that having a “successful” pen on CodePen elevates the user’s status or whatnot? And the "reward" there is that their status translates into even more status, which eventually leads to more… MONEY? Unless it’s just a bunch of incredibly wealthy Kennedy-type kids, just freely forever giving of their successfully bred genius to others? Because they don't even NEED our money! Pshaw... ;)

 

I’m not a coder, I’m not an illustrator - I just come up with concepts, good or bad, and wish to be judged by the success of those concepts. Just being as honest as I hope I can be? Whether it makes me a horrible person or not?

 

I’m so VERY HAPPY and I absolutely wish to provide credit to anyone and everyone - within the code or wherever folks hunting for credits might search?

 

BUT I also don’t wish to post self-serving CodePens that I'd then REALLY need to delete after I’ve received help on them, because obviously the brands I’m working for, possible illustrators, etc etc -

 

And honestly? *I* don’t wish to even have MY unfinished work spread all over CodePen, where I’m guessing - if it’s any good - there’s most definitely a bad apple working for one of the “Free Template” sites scoping CodePen nonstop for more of their “Free Templates” ;)

 

I get that there’s no way to prevent that problem - BUT - if I confine my work to my own website - at least if a client does come to me - “Hey, why does so and so have almost an EXACT copy of MY website?” I’ve at least done my best to not make that an even bigger issue by providing that content to a site that was created for the purpose of sharing code?

 

Because I’m very much HOPING this post MIGHT be helpful to others in the future - the same for future posts, wherein I'm hoping I'd be provided help -

 

A particular instance is where my illustrator is providing me “roughs” so that I can “play around”. He’s very proud of his work, as he should be. If I stick that into a Codepen and share it here, then I immediately run into a seemingly never-ending “array” of possible problems and issues? If his roughs were to end up all over the place, reproduced by the scavenger bots? I just can't imagine him being incredibly happy with me? ;) I actually screwed up and did that before, and Cassie was kind enough to help me “undo” my mistake with her fork.

 

And I absolutely don’t intend any criticism toward CodePen. It’s an absolutely wonderful resource!

 

So... how do others cope with these issues?

 

Heck, I can’t even credit the illustrator whose art I will be presenting on the site, because it would obviously detract from the concept to provide that information more prominently. Again, beyond code comments, I am claiming full credit. Which possibly makes me evil? I dunno?

 

HOWEVER - if anyone were to tell me "Oh, I LOVE that illustration you drew!" - I would very quickly address that I'm absolutely NOT an illustrator, but I'd be happy to help them work with him if they wish to work with me. Whereas I wouldn't say - "Oh! I suck at coding! Thank goodness for the folks at the Greensock forum!" But that's only because people would understand that I'm NOT an illustrator, as they know what illustration is. They don't have the slightest understanding of coding, so their reaction would then be that I just told them that I don't know anything about "code" - whatever that word might mean to them?

 

Oh - and to properly credit any help received here, I suppose I would credit with a comment within whichever file is appropriate by referencing that help as being provided more generally on the Greensock Forums? I'm guessing people here on the forums would NOT appreciate me messaging them here to ask how they might like to be properly credited for their help on my project? ;) 

 

And I apologize if I've gone on far too long here. Thanks so very much for any feedback!

 

 

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CodePen is just a place to share fun code demos - I don't know of anyone monetising it. 😂 If they are let me know how!

It's just like a coding scrapbook really - a place to gather inspiration and share ideas.

If you want to avoid people from seeing or taking final code or illustrations from codepen you'll either need to invest in a codepen pro account so that you can have private pens, or create more minimal demos without the final illustrations in. Usually when people run into a snag with GSAP it can be demonstrated using simple coloured boxes - you don't need to provide the whole illustration.

Help provided here is just given out of goodwill, you don't need to credit people - but if you've received a lot of help from a forum thread it might be nice to link to that thread in the code so that future people looking at it can also learn from it.

 

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Yep, what @Cassie said :)

 

My personal opinion (take it for what it's worth): There will always be dishonest people looking for shortcuts who will rip you off if you're good at what you do. No matter how hard you try to prevent it, you just can't. Where do you want to spend your time and resources? What will deliver the best results? Constantly playing defense, keeping things super close to the vest, limiting exposure, etc. or just being the freakin' best you possibly can at your craft and getting your art into the world? In my experience, that's a far more productive strategy. The market will recognize your talents eventually if you are truly good at your craft. 

 

That's how we roll at GreenSock. We take some basic precautions but overall we burn almost no resources trying to hunt down violators and thieves. Instead, we focus our energy on building the best tools we possibly can and serving our customers in a way that makes them go "WOW!", trusting that'll ultimately pay better dividends than having a locked-down, defensive posture that lives in fear that someone will steal credit for our hard work. 

 

Maybe it's a stupid or naive approach, but thus far it has worked pretty well. 

 

When I see someone being hyper protective and focused on getting credit for things, it communicates insecurity (to me at least), like they don't have much confidence in their abilities. I'm not saying that's you, of course - I'm just being candid about the general impression I've gotten in the past when dealing with situations like this. 

 

Just my 2 cents; keep the change. ;)

 

And to reiterate what Cassie said, we don't expect you to give us credit for help we provide here. Nice of you to be sensitive to that, though. 

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I'm not a coder, so I don't know how people might go about monetising CodePen? But CodePen is most definitely monetizing CodePen ;) So i certainly hope contributing coders are monetising it with job promotions or however?

 

But if I sign up for CodePen, guessing I have the same problems as long as the pen is available on the forums? So... no CodePen for my purposes?

 

And if I were proficient enough at coding to know how to "conceptually" remove all of the artwork and present the same problem sans the copyrighted artwork? Then I'd really be insanely happy with how incredibly AWESOME I am at both conceptualizing and coding!

 

Instead I'm at the level I am - and the artwork is integral to what it is I'm attempting to do? Whether I'm tweaking it or whatever -

 

"Where did I screw up here? What's the correct way? Is there a better way?"

 

When I create any post here, I'm told that I should attach a CodePen if I wish to get any help with a coding issue? It appears to be HEAVILY suggested?

 

I really can't do that, and guessing many other folks can't do that for the same reasons?

 

I completely understand that a Club membership certainly obviously absolutely does NOT warrant me ANY HELP whatsoever here on these forums. If so, it'd go from being an excellent value to the most insanely awesome value ever? 

 

But, given the constraints I don't think I'm just making up to exclude myself -

 

Do all of the gurus normally just ignore posts that aren't supplied on CodePen? I honestly have no idea? Also, is it viewed as "rude" if I don't attempt to keep revisions so that future viewers on the forums might also be able to review the problem and get help? Certainly seems very selfish?

 

So I'm very happy to TRY to do that - but, if a client or anyone I'm working with complains, then it all gets deleted. Because I'm certainly not wealthy enough (yet? I can dream?) that my very best intentions have any monetary value? And, sadly, I NEED the money ;)

 

In short - WAAAHHHH!!! I need help but I can't post my stuff on CodePen! Please make an exception for me because I'm just so super special and stuffz - I totally amz!

 

Also, when coders keep mentioning how they credit others - my guess is that they're supplying comments in their JavaScript alongside the helpful code?

 

Whereas I would LIKE to try to attempt that, I'd end up with more comments than code - so I'm hoping a generic "Created with the help of the wonderful folks at Greensock Forums" at the end would be appropriate enough? But I have no idea - and that last thing I'd wish to do is possibly offend someone who HELPED me?

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21 minutes ago, Creek said:

Whereas I would LIKE to try to attempt that, I'd end up with more comments than code - so I'm hoping a generic "Created with the help of the wonderful folks at Greensock Forums" at the end would be appropriate enough? But I have no idea - and that last thing I'd wish to do is possibly offend someone who HELPED me?

Yep - a little comment like this would be more than enough. As I said, you don't need to credit anyone that helps here!

I can't really provide much more advice other than what I've said previously I'm afraid. If you need help but can't publicly share work, then you need to abstract out the issue you're struggling with. Either that or create a codepen pro account (so that your demos aren't viewable unless shared with a private link) then delete the pens after we've helped you.

If you have another solution to your issue that doesn't involve codepen we're all ears.
 

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25 minutes ago, Creek said:

Do all of the gurus normally just ignore posts that aren't supplied on CodePen? I honestly have no idea? Also, is it viewed as "rude" if I don't attempt to keep revisions so that future viewers on the forums might also be able to review the problem and get help? Certainly seems very selfish?


It's definitely preferable to keep revisions up for future people, but the main goal is to get you unstuck. Don't worry about that.

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1 hour ago, GreenSock said:

When I see someone being hyper protective and focused on getting credit for things, it communicates insecurity (to me at least), like they don't have much confidence in their abilities. I'm not saying that's you, of course - I'm just being candid about the general impression I've gotten in the past when dealing with situations like this.

 

I am absolutely NOT a coder. I might accidentally end up becoming proud of myself for coding - but... I honestly don't ever see that happening?

 

Greensock is properly famous, because it's awesome!

 

My background is in advertising. It's a crazy business - but it's incredibly fun creating the work and dealing with all of that nonsense. IF you're already successful ;)

 

If, like myself, you're just cranking up a new shop? And you haven't already earned your OWN reputation with quality work?

 

You are a genius. And you can be incredibly modest about it - because... you are a genius.

 

But my insecurity level with GSAP? Uhm... how much is a therapist? ;)

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28 minutes ago, Creek said:

I completely understand that a Club membership certainly obviously absolutely does NOT warrant me ANY HELP whatsoever here on these forums. If so, it'd go from being an excellent value to the most insanely awesome value ever? 


Not quite sure what you're asking here - but there's no need to be a club member to get help in the forums!

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31 minutes ago, Creek said:

When I create any post here, I'm told that I should attach a CodePen if I wish to get any help with a coding issue? It appears to be HEAVILY suggested?

Absolutely. It's the best way to get an accurate answer. When you don't provide a CodePen, it is kinda rude because it forces everyone else who is reading your post to guess and read through lengthy descriptions and try to wrap their heads around something that might take 10 seconds to spot in a simple CodePen.

 

It's a bit like if your car wasn't working and you called a mechanic's shop and said "can you please tell me what's wrong with my car?" Well of course they have no idea and they can't even look at your car because you didn't bring it to them. So now their only option is to try to walk through a ton of diagnostic questions (many of which you may not have the answer to) and burn hours of their time (quite expensive and frustrating); You're asking them to do all of that for FREE while they've got other people standing in line at their shop (many of which are paying customers or they were at least willing to go through the hassle of bringing their car in which is equivalent to creating a CodePen). If the car was in front of them, they might say "oh, you're out of gas." DOH! 

 

When someone won't bother to spend a little time creating a minimal demo and yet they're asking a bunch of volunteers to diagnose their issue for free, it isn't very motivating for those volunteers to sacrifice their time. See what I mean? It's almost like telling the mechanic "sorry, I don't want to expend the effort necessary to get my car to you...would you please drive out to my home and fix it for free?" :(

 

31 minutes ago, Creek said:

Do all of the gurus normally just ignore posts that aren't supplied on CodePen? I honestly have no idea? Also, is it viewed as "rude" if I don't attempt to keep revisions so that future viewers on the forums might also be able to review the problem and get help? Certainly seems very selfish?

Nope, we don't ignore any posts. We try to bend over backwards to help anyone who posts here, within reason. Pushing them to create a CodePen isn't just for our benefit either - it's a really REALLY good troubleshooting practice for every user. Our goal is to help folks become better developers and isolating issues is a key skill. 

 

6 minutes ago, Creek said:

My background is in advertising

Mine too. Worked at agencies for years. My background is in graphic design. I've never taken a programming class in my life. And no, I'm most certainly not a genius. I'm just stubborn (ask my wife, ha). 

 

I really don't think it's that much different in the advertising industry. If you put your head down and consistently do outstanding work, you WILL get noticed. Give it time. Hone your craft. Don't fret about credit or else you'll make others very nervous around you. Just be the person who can be counted on to deliver results. Everyone will eventually want you on their team. It's a universal concept, trust me. 

 

Good luck!

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56 minutes ago, GreenSock said:

When someone won't bother to spend a little time creating a minimal demo and yet they're asking a bunch of volunteers to diagnose their issue for free, it isn't very motivating for those volunteers to sacrifice their time. See what I mean? It's almost like telling the mechanic "sorry, I don't want to expend the effort necessary to get my car to you...would you please drive out to my home and fix it for free?" :(

 

Completely understand! I'll do my best to create that then.

 

It's just odd - I'll be presenting something that I KNOW looks horrible - just replacing artwork with squares or circles or whatnot - and that will drive me NUTS!

 

But I think I get it? Coders aren't interested in whether it looks good or not - they can easily see beyond that - their focus is what I'm going on about with the code.

 

And, when I reach the end of my journey - I'll TRY posting a link to my "final product", obviously not on CodePen, hoping to get some feedback on what I might be able to improve?

 

Thanks again SO VERY MUCH!!!

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Very sorry to hear about the challenges, @Creek. I wish you all the best. 

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26 minutes ago, Creek said:

Coders aren't interested in whether it looks good or not - they can easily see beyond that - their focus is what I'm going on about with the code.

Yes, exactly. Sometimes the visuals are just distractions. Simple = better when it comes to troubleshooting. 

 

27 minutes ago, Creek said:

I'll TRY posting a link to my "final product", obviously not on CodePen, hoping to get some feedback on what I might be able to improve?

You're welcome to do that, but please keep in mind that we just don't have the resources to offer free "look at my whole project and tell me if there's anything I could do better" service :) We spend a pretty insane amount of time already in these forums trying to help people with GSAP-specific questions, so it'd be cool if you kept things as tightly focused as possible on the GSAP side of things. 

 

Good luck with the project(s)! 👍

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2 minutes ago, GreenSock said:

You're welcome to do that, but please keep in mind that we just don't have the resources to offer free "look at my whole project and tell me if there's anything I could do better" service :)

 

Oh - the entire project will oddly be based on GSAP. Kinda like a Flash site of olde? But I absolutely understand what you're saying.

 

Probably like tons of other folks, I formerly turned to Adobe Flash for animation. But then Steve introduced the iPhone and we all know how that played out.

 

So, given I at least HOPE that Timmy won't put out a moratorium on JavaScript - very much hoping that, if needed, anything I create with GSAP can still actually EXIST in a decade?

 

Imagine, if you'd relied heavily on Flash - thinking it couldn't possibly just cease to exist? Tons of clients with custom flash animations mixed in? Oh... that was just SO MUCH FUN!!!! ;) 

 

So I'll VERY HAPPILY put the time in NOW to learn GSAP than ever find myself in that position again.

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