Job Market Question

[norkuy]

Hey everyone,

 

Unrelated to a coding question but just curious if I could get the forum's opinion. I'm a front-end developer and I'm really interested in going deep into GSAP, Three.js, Pixi JS, WebGL, and other creative areas of the web. There are endless amounts of React and Angular jobs for front-end devs but these don't interest me as much as working on more creative projects. My question is, can you make a living working with tools like these and more design-focused projects? I don't see a lot of these types of jobs posted, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places? 95% of jobs I see for front-end devs are for web applications.

 

[ZachSaucier]

Hey norkuy and welcome to the GreenSock forums and the world of creative frontend development  It's a fun world.

 

18 minutes ago, norkuy said:

My question is, can you make a living working with tools like these and more design-focused projects?

I make a living building tools for people who work on these sorts of projects, so yes  

 

But more seriously, those sorts of positions are usually frontend or creative developer positions at agencies. You have to look more specifically for them. It's definitely a more competitive world, so you likely need to work somewhere before getting an agency position. And in either case you have to have a strong portfolio of creative projects  

[norkuy]

Thanks for the reply, Zach. You're definitely making devs lives easier. I figured the portfolio part was true. I've been kinda deconstructing Codrops examples lately to understand how they work so I can create some of my own stuff. Thanks! 

[Rodrigo]

Hi,

 

While that is not my main area these days (now I'm focused mostly on full stack) and to complement Zach's answer, the job market is there, is not as advertised as other areas, like the ones you mentioned, but because of how things are unraveling lately (not because of Covid-19 but development in general), is hard for a dev that has to keep up with stuff like Mongo, Postgres, MySQL, GraphQL, React, Vue, Angular, Webpack, server-side, etc., to keep up with those technologies you mentioned. In that regard I haven't done anything beyond a couple of demos using PIXI 5, so there is always a need for creative guys that can deliver good looking and performant work. On that note is important to focus on performance, I've seen and worked in projects where clients are focused on things "looking" amazing and doing crazy stuff without the slightest concern for performance, and then everything torn apart because of it. So if you can keep a good balance between both, you'll be all right.

 

Also don't forget game development, you could add phaser to the mix and you'll have another tool in your belt.

 

Happy Tweening!!!

[Greg Stager]

29 minutes ago, norkuy said:

I don't see a lot of these types of jobs posted

 

I wonder if sometimes the best skill set for the job is the one not mentioned in the advertisement or the folks who really need you post the available position with the sort of title that wouldn't exactly jump out at you.

 

I am not exactly a hard core coder. My background is mostly in education but I have some schooling in application development as well. I work for a large manufacturing company developing training resources - mostly of the interactive online type where I use my development skills. I never would have expected that one day I would be in the industry I am in now - I saw a totally different path - but I am very happy where I am.

 

So while it might mean learning a little bit about another industry, product, or process - you'd be surprised at some of the places where your talents can shine.

I might go so far as suggesting finding someplace that you know has a reputation for being a great place to work, get your foot in the door in some other capacity and find ways to demonstrate your value by using your skills to fill gaps in creative ways. Who knows? You might end up using your talents in ways that you and your employer never thought would happen - and you'll love it!

[PointC]

Skip the coding. There's probably more money in black market TP right now. 

 

2 hours ago, norkuy said:

these don't interest me as much as working on more creative projects.

I hear ya. Creative stuff is waaaaay more fun. I don't use any of the popular frameworks either. Just good ol' vanilla JS. I'm fairly diversified though. Some web design and development along with After Effects and C4D animations. 

 

As the other guys have mentioned, there's work out there. You may have to go find it rather than waiting for a job posting, but it's there. If not, I refer you back to my original idea of black market toilet paper.

 

Good luck and happy tweening.

 

 

[norkuy]

22 minutes ago, PointC said:

I hear ya. Creative stuff is waaaaay more fun.

 

Great to find some like minded people into creative coding here. Being able to work on a bunch of creative projects would be the ideal for me so it's cool to see people are doing it. I'll consider the TP idea haha

[Shrug ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Absolutely you can make a living with creativity, GSAP and various libraries, etc. Build your portfolio to showcase the types of works you wish to do and get hired for. Remember there is no absolute in development as things are always progressing. So strive to learn perpetually, always remain overly curious to try new things, don’t be afraid to fail and learn from your mistakes. Its fine to learn and be inspired by others but strive to find your own uniqueness. Remain inspired and have fun on your journey.

 

A few side notes:

- Build your brand across the web, don’t be a recluse

- Plan for global pandemics / downsizing

- Avoid non-disclose contracts like the plague

[Rodrigo]

28 minutes ago, Shrug ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

...don’t be afraid to fail and learn from your mistakes.

👆 No better way to learn IMHO, even if failing might cost you a job.

 

29 minutes ago, Shrug ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

Avoid non-disclose contracts like the plague

Yeah, the issue is that sometimes there is no way around those...

[norkuy]

1 hour ago, Shrug ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

Absolutely you can make a living with creativity, GSAP and various libraries, etc. Build your portfolio to showcase the types of works you wish to do and get hired for. Remember there is no absolute in development as things are always progressing. So strive to learn perpetually, always remain overly curious to try new things, don’t be afraid to fail and learn from your mistakes. Its fine to learn and be inspired by others but strive to find your own uniqueness. Remain inspired and have fun on your journey.

 

A few side notes:

- Build your brand across the web, don’t be a recluse

- Plan for global pandemics / downsizing

- Avoid non-disclose contracts like the plague

 

Thanks for the advice. Sometimes I get caught up in taking the more stable path (but still a lot of work) of web app development and haven't fully considered doing something creative because I thought it wasn't viable. Thanks

[PointC]

1 hour ago, Shrug ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

Avoid non-disclose contracts like the plague

I sign those when they call and say they have the next Facebook or Twitter and I need some funny in my day. It's usually a hilarious meeting. 

 

You'll find that they've basically "invented" Facebook or Twitter with some tiny little twist. Usually you'll get the offer to do all the work for them and instead of payment (they never have money), they'll reward you with 5% of the company. Uh... I think I'll pass. 🙄

[OSUblake]

On 5/22/2020 at 3:07 PM, norkuy said:

There are endless amounts of React and Angular jobs for front-end devs but these don't interest me as much as working on more creative projects.

 

Even if you want to do creative stuff, I think it's a good idea knowing the basics of modern web applications. I rarely get asked to build something the way I want. I usually get asked to integrate/add it to an existing project that uses something like React or Vue. Knowing stuff like webpack,  es modules, Vue, React, Angular, web components, has really helped me. I'm always amazed at how many sites that primarily use WebGL, are built on top of React. It seems that a lot of devs refuse to write vanilla applications anymore. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

[norkuy]

52 minutes ago, OSUblake said:

 

Even if you want to do creative stuff, I think it's a good idea knowing the basics of modern web applications. 

 

Agree on that, I work on a web app at work, mostly JS but also some Java and SQL.

[Shrug ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

On 5/23/2020 at 1:41 PM, Rodrigo said:

Yeah, the issue is that sometimes there is no way around those.

Yes they can be fine and also quite lucrative but may also pose issues when the other two are present. 😊  😟

[PointC]

On 5/23/2020 at 12:56 PM, OSUblake said:

It seems that a lot of devs refuse to write vanilla applications anymore.

Speaking of anyone writing anything in vanilla, here's a good funny for everyone. 🤣

https://www.theolognion.com/developer-who-wrote-vanilla-html-css-in-notepad-declared-a-witch/